Nudes....

[grizzz]

That always gets people to look :p. This time I mean it though. I have an offer to shoot for a web site that deals in adult content. This stuff really does not bother me at all but I understand many are turned off by it. Not showing or linking anything here but have some business/legal question which is why I am posting here.

Here is the scenario:

I friend who used to be a co worker is starting one of these sites up. We work in IT and I know he knows all of the ins and outs of that since he helped manage our web site that gets over a million hits a month. All he wants is photography help on a pay as you go basis so I am not a part of this just a contractor so to speak.

Question 1 and the most important one is: Is this legal? I'm not talking about underage kids cause I know that is out but what about people over the age of 18? I told him I would have to verify anyones id's even if he already did and he was fine with that. Maybe this is a state to state thing? Dunno, I am in MD.

Question 2: If this is legal what is the going rate for pricing like this? I've done some very basic research and it seams the norm is to pay by the usable image. More if the post is done by me. I have not been able to figure that number though and have seen from $2 and image on up.

He is looking for more of a high end approach since what he has tried did not look that well. During my research (umm, ok I had to go look). it seems this is mostly very simple cross lighting to eliminate any shadows and then basic overblown blur of the skin in post.  His images looked like they were done with a P&S with the flash on. Red eye and everything. So I am sure I can easily do this but am not even going to think about it if there is any chance I can get in trouble.

So any ideas?

Anyone offended by this stuff sorry. Like I said it does not bother me and I would like to make a little coin to cover my gear addiction so I am ok with it. Griz.

[radiophoto]

Griz, you should have every model sign a release form that allows full use of the images for the site.  The copyright and selling rights/reproduction rights/etc. should be assigned to either you as the photographer or to the website owner, in writing.  The model should either be paid outright for use of the images, or given limited access to the images (i.e., a CD with lo-res pics for her myspace or whatever...more "whatever" since myspace doesn't like nudity) with no further reproduction rights.

The model release should be kept on file indefinitely, either by you with a copy to the site owner, or by the site owner (but you should keep a copy since your signature will be on it, too).  If the images are "just nudes", and not true pornography (sexual situations, I won't go any further than that in my description), you should be OK in most states.  Either way, it'll be the site owner who is liable for any laws broken.  All models must be 18 or over, naturally.

As far as pay is concerned (for you), find out if he is selling or re-selling the images - will they be available for sale to multiple parties on-line and/or elsewhere?  If so, don't undersell yourself.  Either way, don't undersell yourself.  If it were me, and I was giving up the rights to these images, I'd be asking for a few hundred bucks per.   "$2 per image" sounds outrageously low, unless you're getting $2 every time he sells that particular image -- but that should be above and beyond your initial payment.

I've been burned every time I've worked on spec -- so I would advise you to get paid up front.  Don't give anybody anything that can be reproduced without your knowledge, especially high-resolution digital images.  If you must give somebody something, give a print on plain paper as your example, and show the images on a computer screen under the terms that you take them with you and hold until payment is received.

I hope this helps, and if anyone disagrees with me or has anything to correct in my assessment, that's great.  I speak only from my own experience, naturally.

Pete

P.S. And get your agreement with site owner in writing.  Don't trust a verbal agreement, don't trust a handshake.

[jake]

I don't speak from experience, except vicariously as the husband of a lawyer who used to do contract work for entertainers and artists, but I would say spending an hour with a lawyer now would probably be a good idea to prevent confusion later. Don't worry about the nature of your work - attorney/client privilege allows you to ask the questions you need to ask without anyone else ever knowing anything about it.

Someone I knew in Prague worked in this field. You can find her (definitely NSFW) online just by searching Jana Krenova in Google. Her frustration was that the whole industry had been diluted by free stuff on the Internet. As a result, she had to work twice as hard for half the money. She also found her work being stolen several times. While a contract & copyright should protect you from these things, it doesn't pay for the lawyer you will need in order to get satisfaction should the images be misappropriated.

All this to say, go see a lawyer. Get an accurate picture of the issues involved in this work and then make your decisions based on that information. Then, as radiophoto says, get a contract, model releases, etc. that will satisfy the legal requirements and protect you from unwanted attention.

[sandeha]

And as photographer, try to retain your copyright.  Martin Schreiber would have been very pissed if he signed away the young model he shot in '79 ...  who later turned into Madonna.   :cool:

[cenelson]

You keep all rights to your work. If he wants work-for-hire (you lose rights) he pays significantly more to strip you of future revenue.

You do need to get your release issues sorted out and you definitely need to comply with any state and federal laws regarding same. Will this be nudes only, or? Something far beyond that?

Bottom line, this is something you need to discuss with your attorney. Find one that knows related law, not the huckster PIL down the street.

As far as money is concerned, unless you are receiving stock in the company or some other form of lucrative compensation, do not shoot anything for $2 a shot, and I don't care how hard he threatens to go find somebody else. Tell him to put his "buddy" on the line and show you just what a friend he is.  Low-balling you is a sure sign of how he thinks of you.

Go see an attorney! None here, that I know of, is qualified to dispense legal advice on this matter, and to be clear, I am not responsible for anything should you act on the suggestions found here-in, other than the one to confer with an attorney in the related field.

[grizzz]

Thanks all. I definitely plan on talking to an attorney. My thinking he is looking at more than just nudes but we have not gone down that path yet. The $2 price really came from other sites like he is looking to do and a quote he got from them. I believe he is looking for a large amount of images from each shoot. 5 or 6 changes (so to speak) with 50-100 usable images in each. So even at 2 bucks a pop it can add up. More of a pop a shot every recycle and get what you can get. Like I said all I have seen is more of a 2 light cross at 45's to the camera and that is it. Were not talking hair and background lighting at this point. I will have to work him into that. He is currently on more of a quantity thing. Just better than what he does. If I do this the plan is to appease him and bang off a bunch of shots and then at the end do a set with proper lighting for each image. He may like it he may not.

I will have a release that allows him usage on his site only. He won't be selling images. I believe what he is looking at is monthly subscriptions. I will retain the rights and I honestly don't think many of the models are looking for more than some low res images.

Maybe just settling on a day rate is the way to go?

Jorn, Jana's site has what i would like to get to with this. I just have to work my boy into it. I may have been a little misleading earlier when I said high end it was a term he used but he doesn't really know what that is yet.

Pete it may go past the normal nudes stuff. If you have any insight I would love to hear it.

Craig, I'd never hold ya responsible. Would ya visit me in jail? :cool: