Scanning Negatives

[Andre Reinders]

I have 2 scanners on my desk - an Epson Photo 4490  which I use for Medium Format, and a Minolta Dimage Scan Dual II (AF-2820U) which I use for my 35mm negs. THe other night while I was scanning some Arista 200, one of the two clips on the neg carrier broke. I was not happy.

I was still bale to run the last set of negatives through, so not all was lost, it kinda worked. Anyway, I started surfing for a replacement carrier - good luck! I did find another whole scanner of the same model on e-bay, and just as I was thinking of putting in a bid - I realized that my Epson 4490 has a 35mm negative carrier.

I had never even tried scanning 35mm negs in the Epson, but I dug around, and finally found the carrier - launched VueScan, and had at 'er.

I didn't have high hopes, as it IS a flatbed scanner....

Here is a comparison of the 2....I tried to crop the same, there is a little fudging as the Minolta is 2820 dpi and the Epson is 4000. So about 100% VS 50%.



The Minolta is certainly sharper, but the Epson has twice the resolution. I always thought the Minolta was too sharp...like, I don't know how to explain it....but maybe the light reflected off the grain too much? Even fine film seemed too grainy. The Epson is softer, but the tones are smoother (probably goes hand in hand..).

I think with some basic sharpening, and not shooting for 16x20 prints, I will be fine...my Minolta may still work with one clip for a while anyway.

Here is the whole image from above, scanned on the Epson, and levelled in PS, then resized from approx. 6700x4400 down to 800x533 using 'Bicubic Sharper' Seems OK to me....but it is hard to tell on a screen methinks.



One question for anyone using a flatbed with Vuescan - does anyone know how to automate the 35mm batch scan? When  I load the carrier and hit preview, I see 5 frames - I would like to scan them all in one pass - not individually - can this be done?

Thanks!

[jake]

As I understand it, the Epson dpi is effectively 2400. The 4000 dpi adds more data to the file, but it does not add detail to the scan. So you are actually looking at similar dpi scanners. There are explanations for why this is somewhere on the Interwebs.

That being said, for putting photos on the Interwebs, nothing beats the speed and volume of an Epson flatbed and the quality is just fine.

You can certainly scan the entire holder in Epson scan in one pass. Just turn off the auto-thumbnail feature, select the entire group of negatives, and scan. Of course, if you leave the scanner set at 4000 dpi, you may choke your computer to death with the file you create. But a contact sheet at 100 dpi or something might work okay.

[Andre Reinders]

I will try to grab the whole negative with the method you mentioned. I just scanned some 6x7 negs last night at 2400 dpi, which created some large files - but nothing choked   They were 5300x6600 pixels, and the tif files were around 67 MB each.

I was hoping to get the odd 11"x14" enlargement from 35mm, but certainly no bigger than 8"x10" with any regularity - usually it will be 4"x6" prints and web postings. I will just have to print something and see!

The 35mm neg on the Epson gives me a 2600x3900 pixel, 20 MB file. I guess 5 in a row would be about 100 MB at full resolution - I think my PC can handle it.

Cheers!

[Andre Reinders]

Can't do it.
The Epson 35mm holders are too finicky to load and don't have any support.
I will limp along with my Minolta - I like the sharpness.
BTW- the 5 frame 35mm scan on the Epson is about 300MB - not too bad

[jake]

Are you trying to make contact sheets?

If so, just open your flatbed and put a light box on top, then scan as a paper photo (i.e. not a transparency.) Put into PS, adjust for the black border, and voila! contact sheet.

[Mike Kovacs]

Try comparing some 35mm transparencies and then see why a film scanner is where its at.

[Diwan Bhathal]

I could never scan a negative properly.  It might be the my film scanner, the software or myself, most likely myself.

Now, I print the image on photo paper and then scan this positive.  The advantage is that I get a regular photo print, a scan of this image, and I do not have to muck with Photoshop.

How's that for a supersophisticated technique?

[Andre Reinders]

Well, I am not going for contact sheets - I make those after I scan the negs, PS has a contact sheet feature.

I am not an expert negative scanner - but a few tips I have heard and implemented.

1. Don't use the software that comes with the scanner - it is usually bad, I bought VueScan.
2. Scan your B/W neg as a colour positive for more information capture - make it BW and inverted in PS, then adjust levels, etc.

So far I have been happy with my scans...I would add another rule/tip:

3. Don't use a flatbed scanner for 35mm - it is fine for Medium Format.

Cheers!

[jake]

Vuescan may be good, but I find it cumbersome. But then I don't do any adjustments pre-scan, and the one thing that Epson Scan allows me to do is scan the negative without the application of any sort of preset "Tri-X" profile or similar. I am not convinced that the amount of detail added scanning B&W as an RGB merits the increased time per scan or the resultant file size, especially since you are going to dump a lot of that info once you switch to B&W in Photoshop. Photoshop is a much better adjustment tool than any scanner TWAIN I know. That being said, I rarely use the Epson now that I have a Nikon Super Coolscan 9000. I guess that if I had an Imacon, my use of the Nikon would diminish as well.

The things that I have found work well for scanning, particularly for B&W, are:

Develop your own film with an eye towards fine grain pattern (rather than clumpy or irregular grain that might print well but won't scan well due to its interaction with the scanner's scanning element) and grayscale separation. This usually means careful control of temperature and minimal agitation. For me this also means using Fuji B&W film and HC110 developer.

Scan with as few changes at the scanner level as possible and do all adjustments in Photoshop. Most scanner adjustments I have seen reduce captured detail a lot more than you would expect. Photoshop is much more precise.

Do as many of your adjustments using curves as possible and save versions of the file. Use multiple curves to adjust varying areas of the image. If you screw up, you can always go back to a previous version. Other people use adjustment layers for this. Screw something up, then delete that adjustment layer.

Learn how to use the masking tool and the dodge/burn tool to pull and push small areas that will solidify the image content-wise. Nothing worse than having an image where a slight adjustment to a central element will bring the photo together, but instead you end up putting a halo around the head of someone who is not so angelic.

Eventually, I can see that I will have to increase my understanding of working with layers, especially where it allows adding an adjustment layer that emphasizes a particular element and then "erasing" that area into the main image - like increasing detail in hair, etc.

So if not contact sheets, then...?

[Santiago Montenegro]

"Scan with as few changes at the scanner level as possible and do all adjustments in Photoshop".

I hear you, my friend!

[jamesmck]

Scan with as few changes at the scanner level as possible and do all adjustments in Photoshop.

I'm not a big-time scanner, but this is what I've always done.  If not doing pre-scan adjustments, am I missing anything by using the Epson or Nikon software vs. something like Vuescan?  Are there any good arguments in favor of doing some adjustments at the scanner level?

James