Streaks on Negative - Leica II

[joho35mm]

I just processed the first test roll shot with the Leica II. The camera has an interesting history, having been "liberated" from a German soldier in 1945 by a GI and brought to America, then traded to a Navy corpsman, who sold it to me. While the camera operates very smoothly for a 70+ year old instrument, the photos have some issues. See here:





These streaks show up on all of the photos taken outdoors. Photos taken indoors, however, don't show these streaks:





Is this a shutter issue or a developing issue? I find it strange that all of the outdoor photos show the streaks, and none indoors; the streaks also don't extend between frames (in the blank spaces), leading me to believe that the shutter is suspect. If it is related to the shutter, do any of you guys know what the specific problem might be? Lastly, being a Leica-newbie, who are good, solid repair people I should look up?

All of the photos were shot with a late black bodied Jupiter-8 50mm f/2 I got from Danny; film was Kodak BW400CN developed and scanned at a local CVS. The indoor photos were taken at 1/500 at 2.8, and the outdoor photos were 1/500 at f/11 or f/16, all exposures guesstimated.

[LarryD]

Well inside you used a slower shutter speed I would assume so you high speeds have an issue.

[joho35mm]

No, I shot all the indoor shots at 1/500 also...

[BurninFilm]

That's an interesting problem you seem to be having. I've never experienced anything quite like that with any classic, focal-plane shuttered camera, so any ideas I have will simply be speculation.

Seeing as how the lines on the outdoor pictures go across the longest dimension of the frame, I'd think your shutter curtains might not be closing enough when you wind the camera for the next frame. But, if this were the case, I'd expect a more severe light leak, and the streaks extending into the spaces between frames. Another option is your shutter curtains are starting to go bad. The last option is that something went wrong in processing your roll of film.

I'd suggest shooting one more roll of film, doing a few simple tests to be sure of what's wrong. When shooting the next roll, shoot some well-metered frames in quick succession indoors. Then, go outside on a sunny day and shoot a few more frames in quick succession. After this, shoot some more frames outside, but slowly winding the camera each time, and waiting 5-10 minutes between shots (with the lens off or set wide open while waiting between shots). To test if the curtains are closing together properly, wind the camera only about halfway so the place where the two curtains meet is in the middle of the film gate, and leave it this way for a few minutes outside before fully winding the camera. Finally, when all the frames have been used up, have the film processed somewhere else.

If the negatives are still problematic, you might look into having the camera CLA'd. Youxin Ye is well recommended and inexpensive, and does CLA the earlier Barnack Leicas. You should be able to Google his contact info.

[Glenn Thoreson]

I don't think it's a shutter issue at all.  It looks to me like dirty rollers in the procesing machine. If I remember correctly, the shutter in that camera travels horizontally. If the shutter was erratic, unlikely to be jumping at 1/500, the streaks would be going the other way. Nice and sharp, those photos. I'm going to guess that the outdoor shots were taken first and the indoor group toward the end. In that case the machine may have corrected itself. Dirty rollers and other issues are a common problem with these places. I don't think there's anything wrong with your camera.

[Mike Kovacs]

Glenn, the streaks are in the direction of the shutter travel.

But I'm thinking processing too.

[joho35mm]

Thanks for all the responses!

Looking at the negatives, I interspersed indoor shots with outdoor ones throughout the roll, and the streaks only appear on the outdoor shots. I guess that rules out the possibility of processing error. It might be, as Danny suggested, that the shutter curtains have issues.

I'll try out the suggested test and see what happens. It's a lovely camera and a very sharp lens (thanks, Danny!) so I'm determined to get this sorted out. I might as well get a CLA for the camera in the end; after all, it probably hasn't been looked at by a technician since it left the factory in 1938 :p (Which makes it even more amazing that it still shoots well enough to give a few outstanding photos!)

[radiophoto]

Joseph, please keep us informed of who you go with for the CLA and how much it cost(s).  I had a thread about my Leica IIIc last week, wherein the shutter was working erratically (but with mine it was the shutter not firing for a few frames in sequence), so I may need a CLA as well.

[joho35mm]

I just emailed Youxin Ye, and he replied (within 10 minutes!) with the following:
_________________

Joe,

It appears your camera has "capping", or the shutter does not travel evenly. This is typical for a camera without CLA for years esp. at higher speeds. I don't see any light leaks so far from your pictures sent me. Leica II usually has good curtains. You need to get the camera CLA'd in order to use it. My charge is $70 CLA plus back shipping.  If the shutter curtains are broken, it will cost $120 to replace (include CLA) plus back shipping. I can change the beam splitter to new while working on the camera for $20.
My address is:

Youxin Ye
16 Fairview Road
Canton, MA 02021
(781) 830-9141 (eve/weekends)

If possible, please use USPS priority mail.

Best Regards,
Youxin
__________________

Based on the speed and thoroughness with which Mr. Ye answered the email, as well as the high marks he's been getting on Photo.net and other sites, I'm feeling confident about sending the camera to him. The repair cost also seems very reasonable. Looks like this Leica is going to make a trip back East next week!

[joho35mm]

For reference, Youxin Ye's email is: wye7@yahoo.com

[Mike Kovacs]

The usual way to check capping is to fire, then wind the camera looking through the back while a strong light source is pointed from the front.

Easy as pie, except you can't see in the back of a screwmount Leica.  For what he charges, I'd say go for it.  A Leica IIIc is totally worth sinking some money into.  I kind of regret selling my screwmount, though I still like the Contax better.

[Santiago Montenegro]

I had the exact same issue in my IIIc, and it was the shutter capping at high speeds.

[joho35mm]

Well, looks like we got the problem nailed down! Santiago, when you had your Leica IIIc serviced for the capping, did that involve a curtain replacement, or just a mechanical tune up?

[Santiago Montenegro]

I just cleaned old gunk from the shutter and added new clean gunk. I did repair a pinhole in the curtains, but I am sure it was unrelated.

[jake]

Just a quick question - how does capping result in horizontal streaks? The shutter goes --------> when it travels across the film gate, and the streaks go -------> too. I would expect a shutter that was capping to produce banding in a vertical direction like IIIIIIIIIII or even just 1/2 an image with the other half being black, not horizontal streaking.

The streaks on the negatives are darker at one end than the other, so that would suggest that the shutter curtains are indeed traveling unevenly, but I would wonder if the streaking is caused by deterioration of the shutter curtain where it attaches at its edge to the horizontal metal band of the curtain mechanism. But that doesn't make total sense either because there should be light streaks, unless the holes are small enough & the shutter travel fast enough and thus what you are seeing is a sieve-like view of the uneven curtain travel.