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Author Topic: Introduction, and question re: Rolleiflex "old Standard"  (Read 1272 times)
brazile
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« on: December 21, 2010, 11:33:04 AM »

Hi -- I'm new to this forum, but have been reading it for several weeks. I've very much enjoyed the appreciation for traditional methods that I've seen as well as the willingness to resurrect still-useful equipment. I tend in those directions myself, although I have not traveled as far down the path as many of you, so I have a lot to learn.

I started in photography about 25 years ago with the OM10FC that my dad gave me one Christmas. I shot with it constantly through college and for a while afterward, but with marriage, kids, and job, that gradually fell by the wayside. Then, with the coming of digital photography, I decided to get back into it, picked up a DSLR a couple years ago, and have been enjoying it a lot. But when my grandparents aged and finally passed away, I ended up with a large batch of family photos which I undertook to scan (so as to be able to share them with my brothers and other interested family members) I was struck by how beautiful some of the old photos were, especially when I scanned the old negatives that I found.

So I decided to dig out my old Olympus and start shooting with it again, which was very rewarding. Soon I realized that I could indulge all the dreams I had when I was 20 about equipment and methods that then seemed out of reach (rangefinders, TLRs, large format, film developing etc.) now that I have a few more funds, and because of the change in cost for many of the items that were professional grade back then. That, plus my own inclination to be a bargain-hunter, well, a lot of old, somewhat beat-up or dirty, but still usable photo equipment has found its way to my house recently.

Since I took the same approach to woodworking (a tendency toward old hand tools, easier to find at auctions or estate sales, a lot of elbow grease put into appropriate cleanup), it seemed natural to continue it with photography.

So...this is a long-winded way of setting up my current challenge. Amongst the other recent finds I've made while bargain-hunting (nothing over $100 yet, though I wasn't trying to stay below a set limit, just giving an idea of the kind of stuff I'm picking up) was a Calumet CC-400 which needed only a lens board (which I've taken a first crack at, want to try it out this week) to be usable, and the topic at hand: a Rolleiflex Old Standard, S/N 401980, which suggests that it was manufactured in the early- to mid-1930s, which I gleaned from the usual large auction site.

The camera arrived looking a bit careworn, but seemed fully-functional (and was billed as same by the seller). In fact, he specifically said that there were "no fungus scratches, or cleaning marks" on the taking lens.

I had always been attracted to the Rolleiflex, but never thought I could afford one, so picking one up for $95 seemed a little surreal. I immediately put a roll of film into it and took it around trying to figure out how to use the thing and shooting all manner of boring things in my rush to see how the results look. At first, I planned to take the film to a local lab, but between being in a hurry, being a bit ashamed to have some lab technician see the really tedious stuff I'd shot in a big hurry (need to get over that), and always having wanted to learn to develop B&W, which didn't seem that hard -- well, I ran out, bought some chemicals and some plastic jugs, etc., and ran the roll through myself.

I was pretty excited to see images come out, and some of them were even kind of interesting, if not gallery material. But once I scanned the negatives, I noticed quickly that the contrast was somewhat low in the images, as well as a tendency to flare, or possibly haze, around bright areas.



This one took some heroic (I exaggerate, but still...) post-processing to get it to look halfway decent:



But with all the potential places I could have screwed up, ranging from original exposure to developing (I was using D-76 on a mix of Adox 100, TMAX 100, and TMAX 400) to possible scanning mistakes (some negs were a bit bowed, and I was using the stock holder with my Epson V500, which I'm normally pretty happy with), that I had to do a lot of testing and thinking and re-trying to figure out where the problem was.

In the end, I finally figured out how to look at the taking lens with a magnifier at just the right angle to light, and was able to spot what appears to be the telltale signs of a fungus infestation. I've bought a number of old M42 lenses over the past few years, but have so far been pretty lucky (and/or the sellers were more careful about descriptions) so I haven't had to deal with it before. But I'd always been a bit of a bottom-feeder, so I always assumed that I would eventually end up needing to learn to disassemble some inexpensive old lens to try my hand at de-fungus operations. Just didn't expect it to be on something like this.

So, finally, my questions: First, here is a shot I managed to get of the taking lens from inside the camera body. I assume that the traces (which appear to be on the inside, possibly on the front of the rear element(s) are in fact from mold:



Second question: how can I remove the taking lens and try some of the various methods for cleaning the lens in the least-potential-damaging way possible? While trying to suss out how the thing was put together, I ended up removing the viewing lens. Unfortunately, when I did so, a split ring that seemed to act as a sort of spacer came off, and I haven't figured out yet how to re-install the lens -- the ring seems to need to be on the lens while screwing it in, yet having it in place prevents the lens from inserting properly into the camera body. Any suggestions in this area would be most welcome, too.





To those who have made it to this point, thanks for reading so far, and thanks in advance for any helpful suggestions.

Robert Brazile
Arlington, Mass.

p.s. For those wondering why I didn't consult professional help: my brother, who lives in New Jersey, was kind enough to take the camera to a well-known Rollei repairman there (before I started messing with it at all, other than to run a roll of film through it!) who refused to have anything to do with it, because he "can't get parts for it any more, and what if a screw were to break or something? It's just an antique now, and I wouldn't take it as a gift." So I don't feel like I'm messing up too much by taking it on myself as a personal challenge. Besides, I enjoy tinkering with things like this anyway, and being able to restore it to at least somewhat improved performance would be a pretty good rush.
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Glenn Thoreson
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« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2010, 12:41:04 PM »

You will find the contrast will be somewhat lower with these old uncoated lenses. You have to watch the angle of the light as it strikes the lens, too. They are more prone to flare and a lens shade or hood is pretty necessary. I can't help with the viewing lens issue. Probably could if I had it in hand. The taking lens should not be difficult to diassemble and clean. The front group should just unscrew from the shutter. You may be able to just unscrew the front retaining ring, using a friction tool. I use various diameters of auto heater hose, sink stoppers, gum erasers, etc, to get these rings off. I think, in order  to get into the front group for cleaning, you will need to remove the retaining ring anyway and it's often easier to do while it's still on the shutter. The rear group unscrews from inside the camera, or you can remove the retaining ring and remove the entire lens/shutter assembly. Whatever you do, make absolutely sure the individual glasses go back exactly as they came out. Digital photos of every step is a good idea. A lens element upside down or in the wrong position will make it useless. Don't be put off by it. It's a pretty simple thing to work on and it will make a great old camera. Cheesy
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Glenn from Wyoming

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Mike Kovacs
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« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2010, 01:33:37 PM »

I'm a bit baffled why you would remove the viewing lens if its the taking lens with fungus!

The viewing lens should not have come loose so easily. Rotating it changes the focus and there should be a locking mechanism - usually a ring with a set screw.

I've worked on a lot of these but my memory is a little foggy because of the differences between the different models I've had open.I'm going to take a guess that the ring is what should be locking the focus lens in place.

To reinstall it, what you need to do is remove the lens standard which is quite easy on an old standard because the 4 screws are on top of the leather covering. Use a PROPERLY fitting screwdriver - the screws are soft and easily botched by inexperienced hands.

When you lift the front standard there are possibly tiny brass shims under each screw hole. Don't lose them and don't mix them up or your front standard won't be parallel when you have to put it back together.

From there you should be able to figure out how to get your taking lens and the lock ring re-installed. Then you have to point the camera at something 1 mile or farther away (I like antenna towers), set the focus knob to infinity, rotate the taking lens and lock it down when you are satisfied you have proper infinity focus.

While you have the front standard off, the front cell of the taking lens should simply unscrew. If the fungus is in the back you have a lot more work and specialized tools like a proper lens spanner to get the rear cell out.

PS don't try to clean the mirror. You'll be sorry!
« Last Edit: December 21, 2010, 01:36:37 PM by Mike Kovacs » Logged

br1078lum
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« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2010, 02:17:19 PM »

First off, welcome to the forum, Robert.  The more tinkerers the better.

That shot of the inside of the taking lens looks more like the moon than anything else.  Nature can be lovely and brutal at the same time.  The fungus not only makes for hazy photos, but can etch the glass itself, forever ruining it.  One method I have heard, but not had the chance to try yet, is to soak the element in a 50/50 solution of Hydrogen Peroxide and Ammonia.  This should take at least four hours to dissolve the fungus, maybe longer.  After that, it's a matter of how much etching occured that will determine if you ever use the camera again.  Then again, you might like it for it's soft look.  And lens re-grinders are becoming few and far between.  Like the repairman you took it to said, this is a very old camera that you just cannot get parts for, unless you have a bunch of junkers laying around.  The big problem is, if there is a part that consistantly fails, they have all been used up by now, and any parts cameras will have been stripped of all usable items.  I passed on a Rollieflex Automat 1 due to this, though I may still go back and get it if I feel I have $75 to throw away on a shelf rider.  The winding mech grinds, the shutter is locked up, and the lens is hazy to put it nicely. 

But at least you are taking the time to learn a few things about camera repair.  That's always good in this age of throw-away everything.  Good luck.

PF
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brazile
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« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2010, 03:18:43 PM »

First, thanks very much for the comments, and the welcome. One thing I really like about what I've read here is the self-sufficient attitude I see amongst the regulars; in other forums I looked at, I saw quite a lot of "why would you want to spend time doing that? just send it back/to a repairman/to the dump and get another one..." that doesn't resonate very well. Would much rather learn how to do some of this myself, within reason, and I enjoy it anyway.

As for some of the comments and questions:

Glenn, yes, I had gathered that I should expect some reduced contrast, and so wasn't entirely surprised by that. But I was having a hard time getting the kind of sharpness I saw in shots from similar cameras and expected somewhat better of the old Tessar based on photos and commentary from those who own them. So that caused me to dig a bit deeper and to discover that the seller hadn't looked all that carefully at the taking lens. I take your point about documenting the steps; would hate to get stuck in a cul de sac.

Mike, yeah, it is baffling, isn't it? While trying to work out how to separate the elements of the taking lens, I noticed that the viewing lens wasn't tight, began unscrewing it, assuming (oops) that it would just screw out and then I could screw it back in, but in the meanwhile might learn something about how the taking lens was put together. Curiosity befuddled the cat, or something. I will note that the viewing lens had seemed to be calibrated to the taking lens properly, despite the apparent looseness -- I checked at infinity after I installed the replacement focus screen (acquired from Rick Oleson, simply forgot to mention that part). The replacement of the screen is not properly part of this saga, however, as it did not affect the issues I'm having -- it simply made it much easier to focus by sight. Thanks for the warning about the mirror, although I fortunately had been forewarned by others' tales of woe. As it happens, my mirror is in decent shape, and I was able to (gently, gently) clean it a bit without doing any damage -- I tested a small corner of it very carefully before proceeding. I also picked up a replacement mirror, expecting to have to replace it when I changed out the focusing screen, but discovered it wasn't really necessary. I do have a decent selection of tools available, and I'm very careful with old screws and the like, even if my adventures with the viewing lens suggest otherwise.

PF, I've seen a couple different potential forumulae, including the one you mentioned, as well as one that is something like 1:2:20 ammonia:peroxide:water. I figured I'd try one of them once I'd found my way into the beast.
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brazile
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« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2010, 04:07:12 PM »

Update: with Mike's clue, I was able to remove the front standard and easily get at the rear element, which was where the fungus appeared to be -- and it cleaned up beautifully! It looks great now. The front element could stand to be cleaned, but does not appear to be fungus-ridden, so I think for the moment, I'll leave well enough alone. Now I just have to figure out how to get the viewing lens back in, and then recalibrate the thing. Hope to have it back in action soon to see if all these shenanigans had any real effect on the resulting IQ. Thanks again for the advice.

Robert
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Glenn Thoreson
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« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2010, 08:34:47 PM »

Ah, good to hear you succeeded. Personally, I never entirely trust the focus scales on old camers when setting the focus. I've found too many that aren't accurate. I always double check with a piece of ground glass on the film plane. Properly adjusted and critically focused, that Tessar should prove to be quite sharp. When shooting B&W it's good practice to use a yellow filter. It helps with the focus of the red light  spectrum, which most old lenses are not corrected for very well. It helps sharpen them as well as giving good sky rendition. I love old cameras. They're like little engineering marvels. Use it in good health. Cheesy
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Glenn from Wyoming

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« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2010, 08:51:36 PM »

A good Tessar, and I've never had a bad CZJ one Smiley , is  a glorious lens. There is a reason for Zeiss' old advertising slogan "The eagle eye for your camera" &, yes, as Glen mentions, a light yellow filter is your friend if you're shooting black and white. OTOH, shoot some of the new Ektar 100 once you get it back together. It may well suprise you.

Good light!
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Heck, just give me a Tessar on any camera :cloud9:
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LarryD
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« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2010, 08:52:33 PM »

Glenn Is there any other type of film than B&W? Smiley

Welcome brazile
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brazile
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« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2010, 04:58:11 AM »

Well, I'm delighted to hear your recommendation of a yellow filter, because I happened to have picked up a push-on yellow filter for the old Rollei's from KEH last week, just based on dimly-remembered recommendations from when I shot B&W with my old Olympus way back when. Probably going to try to fashion some kind of hood for the thing as well, as it tends to overreact to the sun, bright lights, dim lights, fireflies, etc., etc.

As soon as it gets bright enough outside to see farther than about 3 inches (which ought to be around noon sometime here in the Boston area) I'll try to find a distant object to calibrate it with. Fortunately I have the original ground glass (which wasn't in horrible shape, just not as bright as the fresnel from Rick) that I can use for the purpose. Hopefully some photos later today to show whether this all helped or not. I'm having entirely too much fun with this.

Robert
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Mike Kovacs
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« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2010, 05:23:27 AM »

Sounds like you'll be tearing deep into Compur shutters before long LOL. Glad to hear you've got it all back together.

These cameras were designed to be serviced. For routine maintenance its not a difficult camera to work on.
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Santiago Montenegro
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« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2010, 06:07:53 AM »

Welcome aboard! I also cut my teeth with Rolleiflexes. Old camera repairing can become addicting, so be ware!
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brazile
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« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2010, 10:46:19 AM »

Mike: A man's got to know his limitations...one thing I don't know better than to know I can't do it at a time, please. On the other hand, hmm...

Santiago: thanks for the warning, but I suspect you're too late. :-)

Inspired by Scott's efforts in this area, I even picked up some black lacquer to touch up a few dings, which shouldn't take more than 5-10 minutes.

Sheesh, this is a slippery slope, isn't it?

Robert
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Mike Kovacs
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« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2010, 10:51:49 AM »

You have no idea how slippery...

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LarryD
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« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2010, 11:22:54 AM »

It gets worse this is about 15% of it.


The shelf of clutter by inetjoker, on Flickr
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Film photography and the Soviet Union are not dead. Just downsized.
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