Once more unto the breach: a new project Rolleicord IIc

[brazile]

I'm happy enough with the result of working on the Rolleiflex "Old Standard" before such that, when I came across a Rolleicord IIc for $37 with "slow shutter" problems, I thought I'd enjoy taking a crack at it.

The camera arrived, and as described, it was in good cosmetic shape. The "slow shutter speeds" turned out to be not quite the problem. The shutter speeds, to my inexperienced ear, don't sound too horribly far off, but I noticed fairly quickly that the leaves of the aperture were not right. When the aperture is fully open, what appears to be part of a blade or blades is still visible in the opening. When closing the aperture, the other blades move into place, and then the aperture looks and acts somewhat reasonably (albeit with what appears to be a gap) but when it's nearing all the way closed, there is a slight resistance and it appears that the combined blades flex slightly. My best guess is that one or two of the blades has hopped out of place somehow and is messing up the action (highly technical term there).

I removed the front element of the taking lens to see it more clearly, and took a few shots to show the problem:

Here is the aperture fully closed down:



Here it's fully open (or as fully open as it gets at present):



Another view:



Seems to me that I need to open up the shutter enough to get to the aperture blades and re-set them. Unfortunately, the Rolleicord IIc doesn't have as easy access behind the standard that the old Rolleiflex did; I assume that the screws to get under there are underneath the otherwise pristine leather cover. Sigh. Not seeing a lot of alternatives to pulling the cover and digging in, though, unless somebody can suggest a better alternative.

The camera is in quite nice shape otherwise; looking in the viewing lens it seems the mirror is in somewhat bad shape, I assume because somebody must have tried to clean it. I have a replacement I picked up for use in the Old Standard that I ended up not needing, though, so that should be recoverable. Other than that, it appears to be all present and correct, and I look forward to getting it back into action...

Robert

[BillyBob]

I'm happy enough with the result of working on the Rolleiflex "Old Standard" before such that, when I came across a Rolleicord IIc for $37 with "slow shutter" problems, I thought I'd enjoy taking a crack at it.

Wow!!  $37.  Wow :-)

When closing the aperture, the other blades move into place, and then the aperture looks and acts somewhat reasonably (albeit with what appears to be a gap) but when it's nearing all the way closed, there is a slight resistance and it appears that the combined blades flex slightly.

I noticed the same thing with my Autocord when I first got it (haven't worked on it in a while; life's busy - I'll get back to it); the aperture action was stiff, and when I tried to stop it down the blades would flex like that - as if the whole group was buckling.   I turned out that the blades simply needed a cleaning; the dirt and oil were making things very stiff.  Ronsonol and a couple q-tips cleaned things up nicely and the blades worked beautifully - until I tried to take the shutter apart to fix the flash sync and ended up with a pile of aperture blades ;-)

So before looking for other problems (and trouble), I'd give it a good cleaning via the access that you have now.  Of course that won't solve the issue of the apparently errant blade - but if might make it more clear where the worst problems lie.

cheers!
Bill

[LarryD]

Yes I had the same problem with a Yashica. Took the front element off like you and with a Q-tip and lighter fluid I dabbed worked dabbed worked and darn if it did not release and start working.

 Cleaned the inner element the same way with the aperture open as some grease and lighter fluid got on it.. I used denatured alcohol to clean the other element that got the crud.  

[brazile]

Thanks, guys, that seems like a reasonable first step. I did try a bit of isopropyl first, which seemed to make no difference...but I was doing it so gingerly, I may not have got much in there...

[LarryD]

You have to get it to soak into the edges.

[brazile]

Well, life intervened, but I finally got back to the 'cord and tried cleaning the aperture blades to see what effect it would have. Seems to have made them move a bit more freely, but no other effect. Decided I needed to get in there and reset the blade or blades that have hopped out of place. Regretfully pulled the front leatherette, which almost came off in one piece (half came off cleanly, the other half...not so cleanly) and removed the steel screws that appeared to hold in the front standard.

The standard now wants to come free, except it appears to be screwed to an arm that is attached to the parallax frame for the viewing screen. I can see where the screw must be (by pulling on the standard gently, I can make enough of a gap on one side that good light lets me see the connected arm and the business end of a screw) but can't figure out how to get at the head of the screw so I can disconnect the arm. Apparently I'm supposed to take something else off first to gain access to that screw. There are a bunch of brass screws visible on the front of the standard, but I've so far avoided removing any of them until I was sure what effect that would have. Would they allow the removal of the cover plate on the standard? That might be the answer, but wanted to give it some thought before plowing ahead...

Robert

[brazile]

Ah...figured out that the brass screws (well, some of them, at least) held on the decorative plate over the standard, which once removed gave access to the screw holding the parallax arm on. now I have the lens unit out and can see from the back at least that one or two of the blades must have popped loose on one end. Just have to figure out what the least intrusive method for getting at them is.

[Mike Kovacs]

Good luck! Most frustrating job in camera repair trying to reset these older round aperture blades!

The 5 bladers don't have as nice bokeh but you also won't have a stroke putting them back together...

[brazile]

Thanks, Mike -- it's gone relatively smoothly, if slowly (outside events keep distracting me from my real priorities  :cool: ). I'm a little stuck at the moment, though: I have the lens plate (with lenses attached) out, but don't know the best way into the shutter.

The aperture blades are much closer to the rear of the lens, but there is a sort of cylindrical hood around it, and then the rear element has the standard notched ring surrounding it. I have a spanner wrench, but want to be careful here: it's not obvious to me how to remove the hood (if it's just screwed in, it's very tight, and I don't want to force it) and there are not one but two concentric rings around the rear element, so I'm not clear which one to unscrew anyhow. I'm guessing [!] that one is some kind of retaining ring and the other one is the actual rear element, and the exploded parts diagram I came across of the Rolleicord Vb suggests that possibility, but...

Here are a couple photos to illustrate:

front:



rear:



Any tips or insight appreciated.

Robert

[sandeha]

The front cover with the all the print on it has to come off.    Put the levers at B and f3.5.  I can see you've taken out one of the screws already, but can't see the others.  There are four or five.  It lifts off, but you have to unscrew the knob on the cocking lever first.  Then you will see how to wiggle it off from the top end.

That gets you to the shutter.  I forget where or how it's screwed to the plate but you'll probably see that once the cover's off and you get into the front of the shutter proper.  Watch out for the flash contact cable.  This might help ... http://pheugo.com/cameras/index.php?page=compur

[Mike Kovacs]

How the heck did you get the lens board off the camera and still have the front plate attached? Must of took some effort LOL.

Once you get that front plate off, the shutter is threaded in with a collar you can see on your photo of the back. The collar with the slots in it for a spanner wrench.

From there my compur rapid tutorial ought to get you most of the way into the shutter. The only part I left out was removing the aperture blades, but you'll see the tiny screws you need to remove to get in there once you take the rotating aperture selector ring off.

http://www.davidrichert.com/zeiss_521_16_compur_rapid_shutter.htm

[brazile]

Sandeha -- thanks, I did take all of those screws out, but couldn't work out how to get the cover around the levers. I now have the cocking lever knob off as well, and front cover seems to want to come free, but it's still stuck somewhere around the shutter timing lever, like there's still a screw there, but there's not as far as I can see. I'll keep wiggling it; it should become apparent.

Mike -- actually, it was easy, so I'm wondering what's going on here. Once the screws in the faceplate under the leatherette were removed, the only thing holding the entire assembly to the rest of the camera was the linkage to the parallax frame in the viewer -- and once I got access to that screw, it came right apart. I certainly didn't have to struggle or force anything. Perhaps later Rolleicord lens boards were attached somewhat differently?

Thanks very much for the links, guys!

Robert

[brazile]

A long-delayed update:

Thanks to extensive business travel, various corporate hijinks, and illness, I had very little time in the late winter to work on this. Managed to put in an hour or two once every other week or so. This is definitely not the best way to go about this kind of task.

Regardless, after much travail, and a few times when I thought I had blown it, I managed to get down to the aperture blades, disassemble and clean them, and (wonder of wonders) reassemble them. That last part was where I seriously doubted my ability to solve this problem a few times, but with the clues offered here, plus a tear-down of a similar shutter I found on the web, I was finally able to get the blades re-woven and back into place. The shutter went back together surprisingly easily (surprising enough that I don't completely trust that I got it right yet) and seems to work well now. The blades open and shut smoothly and easily, and the various speed settings sound reasonable so far. I may find that I need to adjust the slow-speed escapement a bit, as I doubt that I put it back exactly where it was, but if that's the worst thing I do to this camera, I'll be a very happy man.

Now -- I just have to put the silly thing back together again! While I took some photos as I went, it's been just long enough that the steps in between the photos that I was sure I would remember have become fuzzy. I'm at the home stretch -- the shutter is one unit again, and needs to be reinstalled on the lens board. Here is a shot of the current state of affairs:


SDIM0621 by rbrazile, on Flickr

My question: the two black rings that can be seen just under and to the left of the shutter -- one is a perfect fit for the lens board, in that it has a rebate that is of the correct outer diameter to fit snugly in the lens board hole, as well as around the rear threads on the shutter. What I can't recall is how it mates with the flat washer next to it, or with the cocking lever ring you can see above it. I'll keep trying different things, but a last tip to get me over the hump would be very helpful.

Robert