Voitlander Vito B Pronto Shutter CLA

[br1078lum]

When I did rentavet's Vito, it seemed like such an easy camera to work on.  Then someone over on RFf was wondering how to get into his Vito BL (same camera but with a meter and a bigger viewfinder), and I said I'd tear mine down to give him some pointers, as I didn't do a very good job of documenting rentavets repair.

I'm the one who needed some pointers.  Turns out mine has the earlier helical focusing mount, whereas John's was front-cell focusing.  Those are much easier to teardown, and adjust.  But I plowed on anyway, and now have it disassembled, and ready for the C part of the job.  It really neads the L too, as it squeaked and squawked everytime I focussed it.  Surprizing though, as there are big gobs of grease all over the perimeter of the mount.  Almost like someone tried to work some up under the focusing ring to quiet things down.  Reminds me of the "Yak Butter" you hear about on the FSU cameras.

Here's the camera:

The Camera by br1078phot, on Flickr

And it's shutter:

The Pronto 4-Speed Shutter by br1078phot, on Flickr

I've got the speed and delay pallets removed and ready for a Ronsonal bath, and have figured out how I'm going to get the lens assembly refocussed.  In the meantime, here is the set with all the photos and running comentary.  I'll add more to it later as I make more progress on it.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7699588@N07/sets/72157628692588885/

First project of the New Year!

PF

[Dean Williams]

'

Many of the hard body Vito family have a lot of "stuff" in the way of the shutter escapements. 



Been some time since I was in the last one, but gosh, I used to get a lot of them in.  It's quite a bit of
doing just to rinse the gear trains, PF.  If you're up to it, it's a good time to split that Prontor and
clean the leaves and actuator ring.  Always seems that the more work it is to get to the works, the
higher chance that it needs clean leaves.  I think that's one of Murphy's laws. 

[br1078lum]

Okay, I've got a question for you Dean.  Is the shutter mounted from the front, or from the back?  I mean, if I wanted to seperate the shutter from the front plate, do I need to remove the front plate because the mounting screws are on the back (film side), or are they on the front?

I don't really want to do this, because the shutter is clean, and working fine.  But say I find another in worse condition, it would be good info to have.  The other one I worked on had the Prontor SVS (I think the Pronto was used only on the base priced model), and it was easier to get the speed and delay pallets off.

Like that photo of the BR.  The guy on RFf will truly be surprized when he digs into his BL.  I don't think he's ever worked on a camera before.  But if he got a Type II, then it should be not as difficult as the Type I.

PF

[Dean Williams]

PF, if the camera has a solid sheet metal baffle over the rear lens element in the back, and you can see no sign of any
screws to get that baffle off, then the shutter comes out the front.  There should be three screws each on the right and
left of the square shutter nacelle on the front of the camera.  They are under the leather.  You have to peel it back about
3/8" on each side of the nacelle and you'll see them.
Take them out and the whole front nacelle plate comes off, and then you can take the shutter out of that plate.

Behind that shutter nacelle is a sector gear that runs off the cocking lever to cock the shutter.  Check that it is in the same
position when you put the shutter back in as when it came out.

I understand you not wanting to do this part.  Voigtlander were not much on simplifying things.  If the shutter leaves
work to your satisfaction, leave it for now.  I used to split almost all shutters 'cause I didn't want them to come back.
I'd still get one back on occasion.

Just a matter of nomenclature;  The things you are calling pallets are gear driven escapements.  The shutter companies
just called them a delay (self timer) or a governor/regulator/retard (the speed set).  Pallets are a tiny piece inside those
pieces that makes the buzzing sound as it times out the escape wheel.  Repair manuals sometimes call either one of
them an escapement.  Not saying this to pick on your words.  Thought you might be interested.

BTW, in the first paragraph I mentioned if you "see no sign of any screws" in the back.  On a few models of Agfa solid
body cameras, the shutter comes out from the front, but you can't see any screws in the back, and there are none on
the front, either.  They do have screws in the back, but the holes they are in are filled with a hard black stuff, and the
screws are not visible.  You have to pick out that black stuff to get to the screws.  Something for future reference.

Dean

[r-brian]

Nice step by step tutorial.  I've got the same camera sitting in a drawer badly needing a CLA  but I don't think I'll try it.  I'm real good at taking things apart.  However, I not very good at putting them back together.

[br1078lum]

Dean, thanks for the info.  This one most certainly will have to come out with the front plate.  Some of the other resouces I have for camera repair call the escapements pallets because it reminds them of one.  I consider it the two plates that hold all the gears and springs of the escapements together.  So it's like lifting a pallet of parts out in one piece, instead of having to dismantle the whole escapement in situ.

It will be interesting enough getting the lens back in focus, and in my experience, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" still rings pretty true.  We used to have guys that would teardown a piece of equipment to the last screw, and then it wouldn't work right when they put it all back together.

I've seen the hidden screw heads on Agfa's before (why I started in on them, I'll never know).  Yashica SLRs also had caps glued to the heads that are around the lens mount, for cosmetic purposes I'll suppose.

Brian, we'll have to see how good I am at getting this one back together.

PF

[Dean Williams]

 Some of the other resouces I have for camera repair call the escapements pallets because it reminds them of one.  I consider it the two plates that hold all the gears and springs of the escapements together.  So it's like lifting a pallet of parts out in one piece, instead of having to dismantle the whole escapement in situ.

I see, PF.  Well, though the thing someone picks up as a pallet of parts has a name spelled the same, it is completely
unrelated to the pallet in a gear escapement.  I don't know how these things come about, but the thought is kind of
humorous, (if only to me!). 

Here are a couple of pictures of speed governor components, top and bottom.  The reduction gears are pretty obvious, and un-named.








The combination of the escape wheel and the little pallet piece are called the escapement.  The rest up to the sector is
generally just called the power train.  They got these names from the horological world, and a clock has similar parts.

If some day you get one with a gear pivot out of it's bushing hole, you can get them back in if you loosen
the screw nearest the sector a little and work the wayward pivot into its bushing with a dental pick.
The old repair manuals often didn't address escapement repair at all.  They just said, "if it doesn't work, put in a new one".
Old price lists for parts showed them new at around $4!

Dean

[br1078lum]

Your pallet is what I've always known as a "pawl, n. a device, as a hinged tounge which engages cogs in a wheel, allowing rotation in only one direction".  Pallet could also mean a small bed or pad filled as with straw, and used on the floor, or a low portable platform used to stack material, as in a warehouse.  I've worked on a lot of different things with clockworks or controlling gears in them, and never heard that called a pallet.  I wouldn't mind getting a general breakdown someday so I can learn the names of the parts.  Maybe sometime when I'm not buying accessories for my cameras.

One thing I do know, those escapements are not meant to be taken apart by someone with no mechanical skill.  Had to walk someone through the reassembly process over on Kyphoto that took his apart, and made no notes as to where everything went back together.  And I noticed in the photo you supplied that crack in the top plate near the pallet.  Did it affect the escapement much?

PF

[Dean Williams]

'

Sorry PF, it's not a pawl.  It's called a pallet.  That's just the name of the thing, like a book is called a book.
Like a lot of mechanical disciplines, these have some odd or unique nomenclature. 

That "crack" isn't a crack.  It's made that way on many types of speed governor escapements and some
self timer delay works.  It's for adjusting what is called the "pallet drop", which is the distance between the
two ends of the pallet, which are shaped kind of like horns, and the teeth on the escape wheel.  Generally,
don't mess with it until you know everything else in the gear train is running properly.  The reason it has that
slot next to the split (that looks like a crack) is so you can put a small screwdriver blade in there to spread
it and change the pallet drop distance.  Spreading it speeds up the gear train, closing has the opposite effect.

You can see that the pallet is mounted on a screw, or pin, and when you spread the pallet drop adjustment
slot, it pushes it toward that screw, which stops the pallet from going in toward the escape wheel beyond
a certain point.  Adjusted in too far, and both ends of the pallet engage the escape wheel, and it will not
turn.  Adjust it too far out, and the pallet ends do not engage the escape wheel at all, and the whole train
powers down instantly.

I think I have a few loose shutters around here, still.  If you would like one to practice on, I'd be glad to send
it to you.  You can use it without worrying about a shutter that goes to a good camera.  Take one completely
apart and reassemble a dozen times or so and you can really get quite good at it, aperture leaves and all. 
Might even have a couple of different brands I could send you, if you want.

Dean

[br1078lum]

I'd read about that adjustment before, Dean, but they didn't explain how they adjusted it.  I've never really noticed the slot before, but then it might not be on some of the shutters I've worked on.  I'll have to break out the magnifiers to have a check.

The more I think about it, the more inclined I am to go ahead and pull the shutter assembly out with the front plate.  I didn't do it with John's Vito because it wasn't my camera, and it was the first stuck shutter I ever worked on.  Didn't want to find out at the wrong time I was in over my head.  And I didn't have any proper glue to recover the front when I was done. 

Thanks for the offer on the shutters.  I'll PM you my address.

PF

[Dean Williams]

Phil, I think you will find much of the same stuff behind that shutter as in the picture below:



A few things will be missing, since that one is from one of the models with the solid rangefinders, but many
things are similar.  The winding sector gear needs to be in its 'rest' position when you put the front back on,
and see that the shutter release lever is in the right place to trip the shutter lever when the button is pressed
down.  That lever in the camera body moves up and down.

As I recall, most of the solid body Vito types are like this.

I have pictures I've taken over the years for disassembly of many types of shutters.  When you get what I'm
sending, I can put some of those pictures up in a thread here, too.  If you need them.

Dean

[br1078lum]

Looks like a little secret chamber on the side of the light chamber where a repairer could slip a note for future repair persons to read.  I take it that the shutter should not be charged when putting it back in the camera.

PF

[Dean Williams]

I take it that the shutter should not be charged when putting it back in the camera.

I don't remember for sure, Phil.  Some of these shutters have the cocking pin that goes back to 'neutral' after it has
been cocked.  If it's like that I think it will go back to where it wants to be whether it's cocked or not.  Then, some
have that cocking pin that stays in the cocked position when cocked, so you probably want that kind un-charged.

That pin on the back of the shutter for yours should have a wheel that looks like fingers, or wide gear teeth.  Should
probably mark which one is pointing up when you pull the front off the camera.
That's just from memory, and it's been some time since my last one.

Dean

[br1078lum]

Dean, I got it back together with very little trouble.  Took a while to find the right screwdriver to reach in and align the shutter release lever when putting the front plate back on.  Then I lost B for some reason, and it took some more time figuring out which lever controlled what.  Found the spring on the top catch was out of place, and so it was an easy fix.  Must have done that while I was trying to get the front plate to settle in place.  All that's left is to set the focus, put the last ring back on, and reglue the coverings.

I found that when the helicoil in the camera was cut in, they really went a little too deep, and got into the body casting surrounding the shutter blades.  This left a very shiny area that could reflect light all over the back of the lens, and maybe cause the less than desirable results I got with the one roll I shot through it.  Used some flat black I had in a Military Flats set of Testors paints to cover it.  This was after trying a magic marker that only left a semi-transparent purple film on the cut.  So I cleaned that off with alcohol, and it may have seeped into the recessed areas, because after that, I was seeing some oil on the blades.  So I gave it a good Ronsonal bath to clear that up.

I'll be adding to the Flickr set after getting everything done on it.  Hope to get it done by noon, as the clouds are supposed to come back in the evening.  Then it will be a couple more days of rain, with Friday being the next window of opportunity for film testing.

PF

[LarryD]

Dean

 You may be retired but like me you seem to answer more than when you were working.