110 so grainy....

[Philip]

I just got some 110 pictures back from the lab. I'm practicing for The 110 Keychain Event.  These were shot on Kodak 110 film in my Minolta 110 slr. (Sorry, they aren't scanned yet; gotta do that myself.)   The exposures are pretty good and, being an slr, the Minolta focusses pretty well.   But I'm disappointed at how grainy they are.  I always knew 110 to be a grainy film, but lately I've been shooting with half-frame 35mm cameras and there's not much difference in frame size between the two.   But comparing the two formats' quality, the half-frame wins by a mile.   Do the manufacturers make 110 film at a lower quality level than 35mm film?

[Wimpler]

I don't think there is a quality difference.  But 110 certainly looks quite a bit smaller then half frame.  For 110 negatives, take into consideration a part of them has a frame printed on it, and will be cropped out!

Here is an example:

[Glenn Thoreson]

What brand and speed was it? How old? There should be no grain problem at all on the little 3X5 proof prints from a mini lab unless there was a problem with the process itself. Usually objectionable grain in color negative film comes from under exposure. The film stock is the same as 35mm, etc. Just cut different. In those tiny cameras, ASA 200 is best unless it's cloudy, then 400 is called for. From my experience, ASA 100 will give exactly the grain you speak of, in mixed light. I haven't seen any 100 OR 400 on the market in years.

[BurninFilm]

You haven't seen any 400 speed 110 on the market? 400 speed is the ONLY 110 film that Kodak still sells. All of the Wal-Marts around here still sell Kodak Gold 400 110 film. And this is out in the middle of nowhere in Kansas.

[derevaun]

Some believe that underexposing by a stop will produce graininess. Others believe that overexposing it by a stop makes it grainy. Who knows? I usually snip the ridge off the cartridge and expose at 400 in the Pentax.

I think the image frame in 110 is 17mm x 13mm?

[BurninFilm]

I've produced some great results from 110 format Kodak Kodacolor 400 film with the Pentax Auto 110 I used to have. I'll try and post some pics I've made with this camera, as grain was barely noticeable on the 4X6 inch prints I got back after processing. Sharpness was great as well, and the camera was truly a miniature wonder. I did trim the end of the film cartridge so the camera would expose the 400 film at the rated 400 speed, as I'm sure exposing the film at 100 would produce some low-quality negatives.

[Philip]

I think the image frame in 110 is 17mm x 13mm?

Close.  At least in my Minolta, the image is 13 x 18 mm.  That's an area of 234 sq. mm.  Half-frame images are about 17 x 25, or 425 sq. mm.  That's an advantage of about 80%, so my initial assumption that they were about the same was pretty far off -- 110 is actually a little better than cutting a half-frame neg in half again!  I used Kodak 400-speed film.  Given all that, I'll take back what I said about my prints -- perhaps they are remarkably ungrainy for 400-speed film cut that tiny!!

As I said, it's practice for the keychain camera when it arrives.  I think I'll look for subjects that are bright and ten feet from me.

[keithslater]

Philip,
Did you clip the cart?

[Philip]

Philip,
Did you clip the cart?

No, I didn't.  Does doing that fool the camera into thinking the film is a stop slower, in order to get more exposure on the film?

[BurninFilm]

No, clipping the cartridge actually fools the camera into correctly exposing 400 speed film. When the cartridge isn't clipped, then a small tab is pressed down on the camera body, telling the camera that the cartridge contains 100 speed film. This results in the 400 speed film being underexposed by two stops, which is bad, to say the least.

[mdcarma]

Any clipping needed for 200? I will clip the 400 carts. Thanks

[BurninFilm]

It depends. On really simple 110 cameras, like the Keychain units, and the millions of cheap Kodaks out there, clipping the cartridge will do nothing. These lower-end 110's have a fixed shutter speed/aperture, so no amount of clipping will help. On higher end 110's, like the Pentax Auto 110, Minolta 110 Zoom, some of the more specified and uncommon Kodaks, and some others, the clipping will help since these cameras can control the exposure. 200 speed film will be incorrectly exposed in these cameras, since only 100 and 400 speeds can be detected by the camera (except ones with +/- exposure adjustment, like the Minolta 110 zoom). So for these, you just need to decide if you want the 200 speed film to be exposed at 100 or 400. Why Kodak sells 400 speed film in a cartridge that advanced 110 cameras detect as 100 speed is beyond my understanding, since they invented the whole 110 idea!

[mdcarma]

Yup, got the Pentax, Minolta, and I think the Rollei A110 can also read the carts. First roll with the Minolta came out nice, but strange. Had a few very nice, and a couple that were total grain, looked like it was shot thru cheesecloth.

[Glenn Thoreson]

Walmart has 400? No wonder I've not seen any. I haven't seen a Walmart in years, either. I've heard rumors that there's a brand new super Walmart only 70 miles from here. Hmmm----- mebbe I oughta get out more.....

[derevaun]

The small format makes it important to work out the relationship between the under/over exposure, the kind of light you shoot in, and whoever prints the photos. I shoot 200 a lot in 110, and I prefer to underexpose at 400 (by snipping the tab) and let York Photo compress the range in the prints. I usually scan the ones I like (a 35mm slide makes a pretty good holder) and the slightly thin negs are kind to my scanner's puny dMax.

But honestly, I don't think I could distinguish a stop's difference on print film without bracketting.