Okay, I gotta give some praise for MPIX

[Josh]

I consider myself the typical serious amature photographer, meaning I very seldom think my photographs are good.  Well I was really happy with a particular portrait I took of a family and got the chance to order a 16x20 print of it.  This is the first time I have ever had something printed that large, I'm using the canon rebel xt 8mp, and was nervous about how it would turn out.  Since Adorama doesn't offer that size on their site I followed a recommendation from someone at a camera club I visited and decided to try MPIX.com for the first time.

I have to say I am extremely happy with it.  You can see the "jaggies" on some of the edges if you know where to look and really shove the photo to your face, but I don't think the average non-obsessed viewer is going to notice them.  I never do this, but I was so happy I sent them a note through their site and I got an email response thanking me for the positive feedback in 5 minutes...from a real person no less.  Neat.

tech notes for those interested:

I shot the photo in RAW and tweaked with Digital Photo Professional that Canon provides with their DSLR's.  I only sharpened to level 5 in DPP then saved and converted to 16bit TIFF with sRGB profile embedded  and uploaded.  MPIX accepts TIFFs or JPEGS, now I know they may well convert to JPEG before printing but at least I'm not degrading the file before they get it this way.  No RGB adjustments in DPP or CS2 tweaks either.  Monitor to print match is right on using DPP and sRGB color space.  Very easy and quick if the initial exposure is good (very important too I think).

Josh

[derevaun]

I've gotten good results with them too. I use a Powerbook G4 and have found that my screen needs to be a bit darker than I usually have it in order to match the prints from MPix. Pretty easy process, they offer a wide range of sizes (including square formats) and their prices are good. Apparently MPix is part of Porter's Camera Store.

[josphy]

MPix also offers the Kodak Metallic paper which is super cool.

My not-very-scientific method to monitor "profiling" has worked out pretty well so far -- after you get one print from somewhere, you can compare it to what you see on your screen and adjust accordingly.   Some places will even send you sample prints for just such a purpose.  I have used http://www.ezprints.com for panoramic prints (12" x whatever prints for something like $2 per 6inches), you can request a packet from them consisting of a color and a b&w print.  You then download the jpeg files of those two prints from their website and compare what you see on your monitor to the print you have in hand.

Another thing I've always done is, when I'm printing big, I make my print a little darker/beefier and contrastier than I would otherwise.  Otherwise, I feel like it will come out too "thin".  The other thing I do is to let the machine do the interpolation.  I just sharpen appropriately before sending the file, but don't overdo it, and then I trust that the machine will do a better job than I would as to interpolation, and I've had excellent results so far.  I did a little test with printing the same crop of a big file interpolated and not interpolated (letting the machine handle the interpolation) and I saw no difference or preferred the machine version, so decided there is no point in sending them a bigger file that has no real information in it.  I send JPEG files too -- saved at the level 12 highest quality in Photoshop.

On the subject of online printing and big prints, my next experiment is going to be http://www.elcocolor.com.  They have 20x30" prints at $9.99 and 30x40" for $19.99 as part of their "web special".  The only requirement is that you have to order 2 prints, but doesn't have to be of the same file or same size.  They have recently added the Kodak Metallic paper as well for a slightly higher price.

[Alan Gage]

I send JPEG files too -- saved at the level 12 highest quality in Photoshop.

FWIW, I use WHCC.com for my prints and they recommend (actually require) JPEGS to be submitted saved at level 10. They say that there is no difference between a printed file that was saved at level 10 as opposed to level 12. I've never done testing to back it up but I tend to trust them as they mainly deal with professionals and wedding photographers (though I'm proof they'll let any schmuck in).

Of course they aren't recommending you save your original or edited files at level 10; just the final step in saving it to be printed.

Alan

[josphy]

FWIW, I use WHCC.com for my prints and they recommend (actually require) JPEGS to be submitted saved at level 10. They say that there is no difference between a printed file that was saved at level 10 as opposed to level 12.

I'm sure they're correct.  I used 10 for a while, but then decided I might as well use 12 since it was there.  Staring me in the face.  Taunting me with the fact that it's 2 more than 10.  Either way, 10...12...still a smaller file than sending them a TIFF.

[LarryD]

How do they do with RAW?

Larry

[josphy]

How do they do with RAW?

They don't as far as I know.  I'm sure some labs out there would process the RAW file for you, but then you'd most likely be paying them handsomely by the hour for Photoshop work.

[LarryD]

So Tiff is the cheapest Loseless way to send them to a processor? Pardon my ignorance. I am bad about the digatal formats ... I am new to digital... Tiff seems pretty loseless but Huge files are OK even with Dial up I just know it takes time..... I think I want to learn.....

Larry

[Alan Gage]

How do they do with RAW?

Like Josphy said, they pretty much don't. I'm sure some labs probably handle RAW but not very many and it won't come cheap. Online print ordering is usually so cheap because the lab does nothing but print.

At least with WHCC you can choose services. The one I use is the cheapest and they do NOTHING to the files before printing. It's all up to me to prep the files how I want. I like it because it's cheap and there are no surprises when I get prints back.

Their is also a service that's a little more expensive where they'll do some color balance and minor adjustments before printing (by eye, not machince I believe); it of course costs more. They also charge by the hour for more serious photoshop work.

I think you'll find most print houses are going to fall under the 1st type. They either do nothing to the files or the machine might do some automated adjustments (like going to the drugstore for C-41). They're all about efficiency and cranking out lots of prints. They (my lab at least) doesn't want (and won't accept) RAW, TIFF, or JPEGS saved higher then level 10. They know what works and larger then necessary files just slow things down and make for more work.

Like it or not if you shoot RAW you're going to be the one doing all the editing up until the print stage, and trust me, editing will be needed. RAW files aren't designed to be printed out of the camera. They generally lack contrast, saturation, and aren't very sharp until you sharpen them. I personally like it that way.

Alan

[LarryD]

Thanks Alan

I have a whole new art to learn....

And thank you for teaching me that.

Larry

[Alan Gage]

So Tiff is the cheapest Loseless way to send them to a processor?

Yes, TIFF would be about the only lossless format some labs would accept...but it's really overkill. Just be sure the last thing you do before sending the file to the printer is the save it as a JPG...they're likely going to do the same thing before printing anyway with they're software anyway.

This of course is a copy of your original and doesn't overwrite it. Since this file (the one ready to print) will never be edited again it doesn't really matter that it was saved in JPG. Trust me, you'll never tell a difference and the smaller file sizes make it much easier to upload as well as store the images.

Here's a nice little PDF tutorial my lab has about prepping to print; it's also their price guide-

http://www.whcc.com/pricing/whcc_2006_pricing_0906.pdf

Alan

[Alan Gage]

Larry,

If you're going to be shooting RAW I'd highly recommend this book. It might not be quite so valuable if you're not using Adobes software; but their is still some very good info on RAW files, what they are, and how to work with them that would apply to most RAW converters.

http://www.nelsonfoto.com/v/showthread.php?t=795

I've heard nothing but good about it from everyone that mentions it.

Alan

[LarryD]

Thanks Alan ... Ohh and the enlarger works like a charm ... I still wonder where I am going with everything ... I use the Omega from time to time ... the one I got from you but 10MP seems to be pretty good also....

Larry

[LarryD]

Here's a nice little PDF tutorial my lab has about prepping to print; it's also their price guide-

http://www.whcc.com/pricing/whcc_2006_pricing_0906.pdf

Thanks I will save it for later.....

I have a local place that I would like to try first... they have done well with some of my negative to Digital scans.....

I have only used JPEG for them to this point .... I did not know better .... Kinkos also printed one from a jpg for me on a laser printer at Poster size that freaked me out with the beauty of what I wanted....

Larry