Options for shooting 828 cameras

[nelsonfoto]

Any of you holding multiple 828 spools and care to lend/trade/sell one?

Also, having done the homework, looks like I will be cutting down some 120 to make this Bantam fly, unless somebody knows where to get stock in these strange times.

Thanks.


edit - this began as a query for information and turned into a rather informative little thread. I've moved it into the FAQ forum for posterity.

[r-brian]

Craig

I have an extra spool.  Also have one piece of backing paper.  I also have a blank piece of 828 film (I think) that will give you the required length.

828 is unperferated 35mm film.  You can use standard 35mm film, you will just have perferation along the top and bottom.

I also have an adapter set that goes into the Kodak Duraflex so you can use the obsolete 828 instead of the obsolete 620.  Don't own a Duraflex.  Do own a Kodak 828 Pony that was my mother's.

Let me look around this long weekend and see if I can find everything.  I have found some 828 sites on the net, with instructions for rerolling 35mm.

Brian

[r-brian]

I also forget.  I did see somewhere on the net 828 film for sale, J&C, Freestyle, somewhere, I just can't remember.

Brian

[r-brian]

Craig

Look down about 9 postings.  Title read 'Source for .... and 828 film'.  Looks like B&H has some, at typical high prices.

Brian

How do you get your posting numbers up.  Multiple post for a single questions.

[nelsonfoto]

Thanks - I found the B&H listing, but they're out of stock.

Bishop sent me a Bantam along with some other stuff he wanted to be rid off. The Bantam looks really neat and I would love to shoot it at least once. Let me know what you find on your end and I will send you shipping info plus whatever $$ figure we arrive at.

Thanks again.

Craig

[LarryD]

I wish I could find it I used to and still may have a splitter for 70mm film. it split it right down the middle to give 2 unperferated 35mm strips.  I got it in a box of junk that also had a splitter after you processed Regular 8 that was 16mm Film cut in half. I rember flipping the roll over after 25 feet in my old 8mm cameras. Maybe you can find a 70mm splitter on the Baby but I have only seen a few listings for 70mm film in the last few months. and I believe that the film used for the IMAX cameras is 65mm not 70.

Larry

[ImageMaker]

If you have any ability at all with tools, you can make a 70 mm to 35 mm slitter in an afternoon.  Look at the designs of the slitters used to make Minox film from 35 mm, and scale up.  The Efke 100, 70 mm unperfed, 100 foot bulk rolls available from J&C will make a little over 150 reloads for 828, if you don't waste any.  I doubt the backing will last that long, but you can make replacement backing by slitting 120 backing so the 6x4.5 track falls under the window in your camera, and then cutting the header and tail to the proper length (8 frames with enough leader and tail to support loading and protect the film on the spool -- should be about 35.2 mm wide).

I need to get around to cleaning the shutters and adjusting the focus in my two (!) Bantam RF cameras.  They have a winding stop that runs on a friction wheel, so don't depend on either the backing paper or the one perf per frame that worked the winding stop in the original cameras (exactly like the stop fingers in 126 and 110 cameras), and my plan is to make up an 828 version of 220 film (using plain 35 mm, at least to start, and to heck with the perfs), which ought to let me fit between 16 and 20 exposures on the tiny 828 spools -- then, my four spools will let me carry three rolls into the field and do some serious shooting, and as a bonus, I can get the film processed for negs-only at Costco.  

[rentavet]

I have my mother's old Bantam RF,  
first 35mm camera I used.  I've wondered about rolling 35mm on
without backing and putting electrical tape on the red window
would have to change in bag or dark room,  but haven't done it yet
I have one not so great piece of backing paper,  suppose could use that as a pattern to cut one off a used 120 roll.  

back on topic,  sorry CE,  but only have 2 spools, will keep you in mind
if a windfall occurs

[nelsonfoto]

Brian is getting me set up. Thanks.

[Peter Evans]

Contrary to what's said above, 828 film is perforated.

I used to think it wasn't, and said as much once on that other site, where I was corrected. I've just googled, and found this informative page, from which I (mis?) infer that the wrong perforations may mess up the winding stop mechanism.

[ImageMaker]

Exactly right, Peter.  828 was the first Kodak film with one perf per frame to operate a winding stop (a setup very familiar to any curious sort who's looked inside a 126 or 110 camera).  However, some of the cheapest Bantam cameras used only the numbers on the backing, while at least one very late model, the Bantam RF, uses a roller wheel that works correctly with either unperfed or 35 mm camera perfed film.

However: many/most of those that depend on the stop finger (including 126 and 110, I might add) can be used with sprocket perf film by taping the stop finger in the retracted position and framing carefully on the backing numbers.  In normal operation, the finger is retracted when the advance is released (done by the shutter in some, manually in others), and when it pops out into the next perf and then is pushed forward a little by the film, it locks the advance.  If it stays retracted, you'll be able to wind without interference -- no automatic stop, but at least the camera will operate.  And almost all, if not all, will work just fine with unperfed film, because the finger stays retracted and never finds a perf to "fall" into.

[Don Day]

Alternate slitting method for 120-to-828 size:
I have cut several rolls of 120 down to 828 size with good success. It is a fair bit of work, but worth it for occasional use.  I did not use the jigsaw method advocated in other posts about this adaptation--the following method produces a cleaner cut with less mechanical damage around the cut edge.

Wrap a piece of used 35mm film around the roll to guide the first cut.  Position the film guide to the top of the 120 spool, relative to reading the film numbers. Make a first cut along this guide, about 1 layer deep around the outside, with a sharp kitchen knife.  Tape down both the main and remainder paper ends so that they don't fly free during this cut.  Then remove the guide and finish the cut by rolling the roll back and forth under the length of the kitchen knife until it cuts to the plastic core.  Note that the fit will get tighter as the width of the knife goes down in the groove.  Use the narrowest-bladed knife you have available, and do this rolling cut on a non-skid surface.

Now to the darkroom with this incised 120 roll, a pair of safety scissors and a 4" long piece of cardboard.  Unroll the main portion until you get to the place where the film is taped to the paper. Double the end of the paper down to this point to measure the halfway point, and cut it there.  You don't have to form the tongue in the dark on this end because it will be to the outside when you are finished.

Now finish unrolling the rest of the film and paper off the 120 spool.  Use that 4" long piece of cardboard as a feeler gauge to cut off the last 4" of film on the roll.  Take the end of the paper, double it over, and cut in half as before.  In the dark, dress this end into a tongue by folding the corners over to meet each other, then trim them off together so that the paper narrows symmetrically to a blunt end.  Thread this end into your spare 828 spool and start rerolling the shortened fim/paper onto it.  Once you get back to the taped end, you might have to undo and restick the tape to account for slack in either the film or paper at this point.

Handle your new roll in low light as much as possible to reduce the chance of light leaks around the ends of this new roll.

Editing note:
(Since the issue of making 828 spools is separate from slitting 120 film, I have moved this part of the article--and ongoing updates to the saga--to a separate post later within this main subject.)

[Don Day]

FWIW, here is a photo from one of the 828-cut rolls I tested (an OD roll of Verichrome Pan 120), using a Flash Bantam f/4.5 (neat little camera!).

Reading time

BTW, Kodak papers are thinner than most modern 120 backing papers, and might have a slight advantage for the cut-down process for 828, especially on the homemade spools which have a larger core..

[LarryD]

Amazing what we will do for our love of a craft and some refuse to call it art. I think the truth is we are artist just keeping these damn  things working.

[ImageMaker]

Hmm.

Don, your method just might be smooth enough to use on a regular basis.  You say you've gotten 14 exposures this way?  Not much if any edge fogging from cutting in daylight, either, if your posted example image is typical; that's *gotta* be better than reloading backing paper with 35 mm film in the dark (and no sprocket holes in the image -- but I'll have to make another adapter for my scanner, since the 35 mm strip holder crops to 24 mm width; not to mention an adapter to fit a 6x6 carrier for my enlarger).  Is the 4" cut off the end required to keep everything fitting on the spools?  FWIW, based on backing I have around, the paper seems about the same on Kodak, Ilford, Agfa (RIP) and Lucky films, probably similar on Fuji as well.  Film thickness might well differ more; I'd be tempted to try this first on Lucky, since it's the thinnest film with the thin backing (and much cheaper than Kodak).

BTW, I like the substitute spools, too, though it's tempting to suggest completely removing the bobbin core, using a minimum length dowel as an adapter and cutting brass tube the same diameter as the original 828 spool to form the new core.  Slot it (Dremel with cutoff wheel) and cut the drive ratchet form on the end, and you've made a complete new 828 spool that will work for takeup as well as supply (making you independent of 828 spool supply) (and the tiniest trim on the bobbin rim will let it fit perfectly in the camera).  You could even use disks cut from brass sheet or brass washers for the flanges, soldered in place with a jig for spacing; not a great deal more work than making the bobbin based spool.

Say, do you notice problems getting a clean cut on the tail when cutting against the modern, skeleton plastic spools?  Or are you cutting off enough of the paper tail to remove the ragged last couple turns?