Ansco Commander

[Andre Reinders]

After running a couple of rolls throught the wonderful Zeiss Ikon Nettar 517/16 I got from Travis, I thought I would look more closely at the other camera he threw in. (he did not know its condition and had no need of it)

An Ansco Commander 6x9 folder.

First thing I noticed was the focus was stuck on 50 feet. After a little research, I realized that these cameras commonly have this problem due to the green 'grease' used.

Mind you, 50 feet is not so bad for a landscape camera...
A quick dof calculation @ http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html
While focussed at 50 feet: @ f/8 the dof is 28-216 feet, @ f/11 it is 24 feet to infinity, @ f/16 it is 20 feet to infinity, and at f/22 I will get 16 feet to infinity.

I did some searching and found a few sites which have documented the degreasing and regreasing process. One site suggested that it was the first super glue

http://www.rolandandcaroline.co.uk/repair.html
http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/frozenfix.html

After giving the bellows an enema with a flashlight in a dark room, I decided the camera was worthy of a test roll of film before attempting the degreasing process.

oh...I haven't shot that test roll yet....but I will soon.

here are a couple of 'product shots' of the beastie:





Wish me luck!

[Glenn Thoreson]

Nice looking camera. It would be well worth a little effort. Can you move the focus at all? If you can move it even a tiny bit, you may be able to get a drop or two of lighter fluid behind the bezel and work the glop back into grease without having to take it apart. Doesn't always work, but I have had a couple of successful ones. If it'll loosen  up a little, I turn it to the closest focus and try to get a drop of oil in there. Of course, if the shutter needs service, too, it's a moot point.

[Andre Reinders]

nah - the focus won't move at all.

[Andre Reinders]

Got the first prints back, shot them all on overcast days at f/8 and 1/200 sec. Film was Fuji Superia 100.

There is something going on - I don't have any experience with what leaking bellows look like - maybe some one can enlighten me. There are certainly some 'effects' happening at the same spots - mainly on the left 1/4 of the frame.

You can see it on the neg as well.







BTW - These are straight scans of the prints, with a little sharpening.

[connealy]

Pretty consistent.  Could be that the base of the bellows is detached on one side. Did you make any progress with the focus?  If not, it might be worthwhile to point a hairdryer at it.  
 . . The pictures are really pretty nice.  Seems worthwhile trying to get the thing working.  I have a Kodak Junior 620 from the Nagel factory which is very similar in design, but the lens vignettes the image, and the only way to change the infinity focus is with shims.  Seems like yours is more fixable.

[Andre Reinders]

I will check the bellows again - I thought I would make sure the bellows were OK before working on the focus...

[Andre Reinders]

...can't see any bellows separation.

[connealy]

Light leaks can be maddening at times.  My best tool has been a goose-necked LED flashlight; even with that it sometimes takes a lot of poking around to find the hole.  I worked on an old Kodak recently in which I just couldn't find a pinhole in the bellows, no matter how I looked.  Turned out there was no hole in the bellows; it was in the metal housing of the winding key.
 . . Still looks like you've got the makings of a fine shooter there.  I don't know whether that makes the process more or less frustrating.

[ImageMaker]

For whatever it's worth, it looks to me (from the cast shadow) as if the leak is in the largest convex-outward fold on the left side of the bellows.  You can see the shadow cast over most of the film by the inward fold behind it, a situation that couldn't occur if the leak were elsewhere in the bellows.

Of course, it's also possible the leak is in the spool chamber at the left side of the camera, and the film getting exposed before or after the photographic exposure; I've seen leaks that looked a little like this due to light sneaking out along the film past a frame gate that wasn't flat (had to install velvet in my Rollfilmkamera to kill one of these that only occurred part of the time).  The projected shape along the edge of the exposed area, however, looks more like an irregularity inside the bellows, very close to the leak (else it'd be sharp if close to the film).

[Glenn Thoreson]

I guess I should ask my standard question - who processed your film? I can't be sure, looking at it on the screen, but I think I may see more than is readily apparent.

[Julio1fer]

I believe ImageMaker is right. It has to be a very well defined leak since it is pretty consistent and reproducible.

It illuminates the right hand side of the film frame; the left side is protected, probably by a shadow caused by a bellows fold (You could look at the folds on the right hand side of the camera, internally, since it seems to have a characteristic shape you could recognize).

I would bet on a single well defined pinhole in the right side of the bellows.

Could be the bellows detached from the body as Connealy said.

Could be a leak from the back but I don't think so because of the well defined, consistent border. According to my limited experience, leaks from the back are more variable and don't have such well defined irregular borders.

As a crazy idea, it could be caused a reflective surface inside the bellows or body, increasing illumination on the right hand side only, but then it should be quite obvious and you would have found it already. A missing baffle or a brilliant surface should be visible, looking from the midst of the gate to the right hand side of the camera.