Mamiya 6 old folder frozen shutter

[Daniel Harbin]

Hello everyone.  
This is my first post to this site but have been following various post which very friendly, knowledgeable members have provided good information for novice tinkers, such as myself.
 
I have a number of old folders (which I like very much), most of which are in good working order.  However, I have an old (I think it is called a standard model), fold out Mamiya 6 with the shutter "frozen".  I've removed the lenses,etc. to get at the shutter.  After studing the mechanism, I think by removing the retaining 4 notched ring inside the bellows will free the entire front, housing the shutter, etc., similar to most basic Zeiss series of cameras.  (There is little information from Googling on repairing this camera). My problem is that I am concerned there is more involved than simply removing this ring.  The rangefinder does not look as though it is coupled to the lens, but some related or other linkage might be.
 
My question is by removing this ring will it free the shutter housing?  If not, how can I remove the shutter?  There is oil/grease deposits on the blades and a good CLA of this mech. should solve my problem.  
 
Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.
Daniel

[Glenn Thoreson]

Yes, removing the ring on the back side of the shutter will allow it to come off with no problem. Be careful of the bellows pleats while you're in there. I'm not familiar with the rangefinder linkage on that particular camera, but most connect to the standard, not the shutter. You should be able to disconnect anything else that might be attached. Make yourself a little diagram or take plenty of digital snaps as you go along. That way you won't have to guess how it goes back together. Good luck.

[Wayne]

Welcome Daniel. Glenn has pretty much covered it - be careful not to damage the bellows and also look for shims behind the shutter (there may or may not be some) and remember to put them back when you re-install the shutter.

There are a couple of users of these old Mamiyas on this site - they seem to be very fine cameras.

[Daniel Harbin]

Thanks guys for the welcome and the reply.
 
Glenn,
I thought as much since this camera and functions are similar to the old zeiss folders.  There is a section above, but in back of the shutter that resembles the Zeiss 530s and Russian 4 & 5 folders which I know contains part of the finder linkage.  When you disturb that, you have a big potential problem on your hands and I did not want to remove anything without checking with someone more knowledgable than myself.  Googling turns up little repair information on this camera.
I do take a number of digital photos, as well as, notes.  When disassembling, I place all parts in order of removal on the adhesive side of duct tape.  This way I know what goes on and the sequence of replacement.  Also, this method prevents me from loosing those tiny parts.
 
Wayne,
Most folders I have serviced, have at least 2 thin paper spacers.  Having torn one while removing the shutter housing; I watch for those.
 
This is a Seikosha - Rapid shutter.  One I am not familiar with.  However, most shutters have similarties(?) and I think I can wade through it.  Will let you know how it works out.  Thinking about cleaning this shutter housing in my sonic cleaner rather than removing parts down to the blades and hand cleaning.  Will then have to run it dry.  We'll see.
 
Thanks again fellows.
Daniel

[Wayne]

Daniel Mitchell has a page on a Seikosha shutter, although your earlier version may be different, possibly a Compur-Rapid copy (he also has a page on that).

[Daniel Harbin]

Thanks Wayne,
 
I'll check out his site.
Daniel

[sebastian toombs]

i cant offer you any useful advice, but good luck -- its a sweet, sweet camera!

[P C Headland]

Hi

There is no link between the rangefinder and the lens, as it is the film plane that is moved.  You can see this if you open the camera back and rack the focus back and forth.

There are some repair links on the web, unfortunately most are in Japanese.  However, if you use Babelfish or Google to translate the pages, you should get an idea of what is going on.

These are nice little cameras - mine is from around 1942 and has two finders - eye level and waist level.

Check here for some repair links

[Daniel Harbin]

Thanks again fellows for the replies.
 
Sebastian, yes it is a nice camera.  Can't wait until I get it into useable condition.  Have the shutter soaking now.
 
P C Headland- aparently I did not use the correct subject line in Google.  After linking to the Nippon site, and looking at the very useful French Mamiya 6 site, I went back to Google and tried again.  Most of the same sites that I had seen before were displayed, but some other useful sites also came up.
From the Japanese site, I learned I have the model IV Mamiya 6.  Luckly my camera was not in as bad a shape as the one on the Frech site.  But I feel more confident in dismantling this camera than I did before.
 
I do appreciate all the replies.
Daniel

[epatsellis]

Daniel,
my experience with Seikos have been mixed, some will respond to a good soaking, others have had to be completely torn down, I use a very low pressure blow gun to dry the solvent, another that will work when naptha won't is CRC electical cleaner, but be very careful if there are any plastics in the shutter, as some don't behave well with it.


erie

[Daniel Harbin]

epatsellis, thanks for the reply.  Yes, I understand that any plastic or composite parts will/might disolve in certain solutions.  From what I can determine, the shutter parts on this camera are all metal.  From other shutter cleanings I've done, it will take quite sometime to remove the grease/oil from the aperture/shutter blades using the soaking method.  As a last resort, I'll disassemble it for cleaning.  In the meantime, I'm cleaning the camera up.
Daniel

[epatsellis]

another option, should you have a watch repair person nearby is to have them ultasonically clean it, the only parts that should be oiled (very lightly, like the tiniest of drops from the tip of a pair of tweezers with watch oil) are the axles (only!) of the escapement (the geary looking part that determines the timing)


erie

[Daniel Harbin]

epatsellis- Thanks for the input.  I have an ultrasonic cleaner but don't have a safe area to set it up for use.  Could probably temporarily set it up outside in the open.  But that would be a pain.  I'm concerned about potential health issues, and fumes from the cleaner igniting while in use within my house.  I don't have an out building away from my house to use.  This summer I plan to build one to house all my "junk" as my wife says, and a place where I can put my tools, do repairs, etc.  
 
On the lubrication, what you suggests is what I have been doing, including placing a tiny amount of molly/lithium grease on certain areas such as the speed selector ring,etc.  Although some tinkers recommend running the shutter totally dry.
 
I found a while back an excellent site, "Kiev Survival", that has an excellent pictoral with explainations on disassembling a Super Ikonta folder shutter.  Every step is explained on how to disassemble, clean, and lubricate, then reassemble this shutter.  If I remember correctly it was a Super Ikonta IV(534/16) with a Synchro Compur MX shutter.  My current job is a little different (Seikosha-Rapid) but there are similarities.
For now, I'm letting it soak with intermittent agitation and changing the solvent as the gunk goes into solution.  If this does not suffice, I may take your adivce and rig up the cleaner outside.  I dread that.
I know a watch repairman that does his own cleaning and I might go that route.  Don't know if he will be open next week (Easter), but may try him.  I have 2 other shutters that need the same cleaning.  
 
Again, thanks for the advice.  The ultrasonic cleaning IS the quickest way and one I probably will wind up doing.
 
Charles

[epatsellis]

Daniel,
the cleaner I have most often seen used is not a solvent based cleaner, you may want to check into that....


erie

[martolod]

Daniel,
the cleaner I have most often seen used is not a solvent based cleaner, you may want to check into that....


erie

i used to use freon when i was working in the instrument lab.great stuff.pour a half gallon into our ultrasonic cleaner an whoa....watch the crud just disintegrate.....unfortunatly the ozone layer aparently don't like freon......