Mamiya 6 old folder frozen shutter

[epatsellis]

we used to have a vapor phase reflow unit at DEC for soldering surface mount pc boards. What I, and most of my coworkers found "of great use" was the post repair cleaning station, basicly about a 40 gal tank of freon, filtered continuously, with refrigeration coils around the top to limit/reduce loss by evaporation. Ever see stained white tennis shoes come out looking brand new in about 30 seconds? (it got a lot of interesting stuff ran though it...)



erie

[Daniel Harbin]

epatsellis, martolod, thank you for your input.
I am at a loss.
If not a petroleum/coal based solvent, and freon is no longer avilable, then what other liquids are obtainable? Ether is a good solvent, but I don't want to use that, even if I knew where to find it. If you have ever smelled it you will know why. It was (and could be still) used as an anesthetic years ago with nasty side effects that lingered long after it's use. I have used Radio Shack's contact cleaner, another brand of similar formulation, lighter fluid, alcohol, and with this shutter I am trying white camp stove fuel. I don't know what solution the watch repairman near me uses, but should he be open next week, I'll see if he will clean it for me if my attempt not work. So far it seems to be dissolving some of the old grease/oil, judging from the solutions color change. Shutter still doesn't want to work after blowing off the residue and a solvent change out.  Thought it would be quicker than using lighter fluid, but I guess not.
Should you know of another, better solution, please do let me know.
Daniel

[martolod]

you could try trichloroethane. (it's other names are Turco, Perclean, Dry Cleaning fluid.)
it is more readily available....your local dry cleaner my even give you a litre.
it's very good at dissolving oil and grease....you can buy it in small quantities as Liquid Paper Thinners.
some of the older,wiser techheads might have some more advice if trichlor is suitable

[Mike Kovacs]

Ultrasonic cleaners are made to be used with soapy water period.  Do not put flammable solvents in ultrasonic cleaners.  You can overdo it with alloy parts so be mindful of that. (put aluminum foil in and see what happens)

What I do is to rinse parts in methanol (or some other suitable alcohol).  It absorbs the water and evaporates quickly as an azeotrope.

I've never found the need for anything but naphtha (lighter fluid) as a general purpose solvent in camera repair.

[Julio1fer]

If lighter fluid was not enough, and if you are 100% sure there are no plastic parts there, then you could try acetone. It is a polar solvent and will take care of things that cannot be disolved with non-polar ones such as lighter fluid. Rinse afterwards with lighter fluid.

Another great general purpose solvent-cleaner is rubbing alcohol (isopropyl alcohol).

Be sure to perform all these experiments in a well ventilated area!

[martolod]

Be sure to perform all these experiments in a well ventilated area!

Awwwwww......that takes all the fun out of it....
...
on a serious note, i agree with julio.well ventilated area is a must.i used have to clean sheets of aircraft aluminium with a liberal application of MEK( Methyl Ethyl Ketone) if you ever need a solvent that rips through grease and just evaporates, that's the stuff.
The very best solvent i have ever used however is Shellite. It's a Shell Petroleum based spirit. you can buy it from camping stores as camping stove fuel in 1 litre bottles. it's basically very clean high grade petrol. we used to use it at work clean up oil spills. works great on getting oil and grease out of concrete. it dissolves the offending oils/greases and then completely evaporates  taking with it any remaining oils. here is the down side:
it's flammable ( so don't use a candle as a light source, don't wear your wife's lingerie when using the stuff, static electricity build up can cause a spark...and that could be, uhhh, like really interesting....trying to explain how the frilly lace got burned:))
its a powerfull solvent- it will take ALL oils and fats out of your hands so wear nitrile rubber gloves
it evaporates very quickly so well ventilated area is a must, and don't breathe in the fumes, it's, well, petrol!...causes liver damage,brain damage,etc
but other than that it's completely safe and harmless to use...just ask Shell:thumbsup2:

[Daniel Harbin]

Thanks guys again for the replies.
 
martolod, I never really thought about dry cleaning fluid.  That is certainly and option.  If I remember correctly, however among other things, it contains benzene which is considered a carcinogen.  So is acetone. I think though in small quantities, with adequate lab apparel, one would be safe in using either, especially outdoors.
Methyl ethyl ketone I have not been able to find except in lacquer thinner.  I asked at our local Lowe's and got that blank stare when I asked for the ketone.  When I explained what it would be used for, I got the "we don't have it".  Lacquer thinner has a host of distillates, alcohols, toluene, acetates, and xylene and might be a good cleaner.  Will certainly consider trying.  Oh, and thanks for the lingerie warning.  Uhhhh.... is this from experience?  (Ha,Ha)
 
mike kovacs, I am planning to use my sonic cleaner by using tap water as a bath in which I will submerge in the basket, a small, sealed glass bottle containing Coleman camp stove fuel, sufficient to cover my shutter. I am hoping the sonic waves will travel through the water, enter the sealed jar and agitate the fuel, cleaning my shutter, continuously checking it.  As I have stated before, don't know if it will work.  Having said that, I had a very good friend, long past away, who was 1 of the first 100 founding members of the American Clock Ass. who regularly cleaned clock works in an out building using an old ss sonci cleaner.  He had a hugh bucked in which he mixed some 6-8 chemicals, making a sol. that he used to clean stubborn gook off the works.  I don't remember water being one of them.  I think acetone was in the mix.  Water could have been a part of some of the chems that he used, but I just don't remember.
I am somewhat surprised that you prefer methanol rather than acetone if you are wanting to use something solely for it's azeotropic(minimum boiling point) properties.  "Wood alcohol(concentrated) has bp of around 64 d. vs. (ketone) Acetone of I believe 56+ d's.  Not sure if Acetone, evaporating so fast, might not leave behind some residue.   Alcohol is certainly less toxic.
 
I did get in touch with my local watch repaiman and he buys his cleaning solution from Casker Co. I called Casker and their "standard solvent", non amoniated, contains (no added water), but a bunch of chemicals with 5-10% Oleic acid; a supprise.  Didn't ask about costs.  For anyone interested, they also sell new industrial grade, ultrasonic cleaners 1/2 gal. size (heated) ss with basket $225.  Address: Casker Co., PO Box 31167, Cincinnati, OH 45231-0167.  There are of course a no. of other companies selling them. Oh, and Jerry would only clean watches.  Would not clean my shutters.
 
Julio1fer -Acetone(propanone) is also a good solvent.  I have used it and have a quart on hand.  I haven't seen Shellite, but have found, and currently using Coleman camp fuel to clean my Mamiya shutter.  Will let you know how it turns out.
 
Again, thanks everyone for you help. Will let you know how it turns out.
Hope everyone had a good Easter!
Daniel

[Wayne]

For what it's worth I use shellite (which is probably the same as the Coleman fuel you mention) almost exclusively when I'm cleaning camera parts.  It's a couple of bucks for a litre and works as well as anything else I've tried. I don't have any experience with ultrasonic cleaning, but in regard to soaking shutters I'd say that you can save yourself a lot of time and trouble by pulling them apart and cleaning them instead. I find acetone most useful for unsticking threads, especially lens groups, trim rings, etc.

[Mike Kovacs]

Acetone will take paint with it so depending on the parts you've got to be careful.  We clean parts for particle accelerator targets using simple green and water in ultrasonics, followed by methanol.  It works very well in this application where even a trace of solvent or machining oil can spell disaster in high vacuum, being blasted by a proton beam  No harm either to put parts in an oven at 150F with the door open.  Not near hot enough to take the temper from hardened steel.

What also works well for degreasing too is brake cleaner.  Best to have a lot of ventilation and avoid the old chlorinated stuff.

[Wayne]

Acetone will take paint with it so depending on the parts you've got to be careful.

Yep, I only use a tiny drop applied to threads and let it seep in to do it's thing.

[Glenn Thoreson]

The auto parts store is a good source for solvents. I use caburetor cleaner (BG is best), brake cleaner and Trichloro whatchacallit, which is available as liquid rubber buffer. Be sure to check the ingredients in the buffer stuff, though. My can is very old and it may be different now. Tops in my book, though, is the BG carb cleaner. Others are okay but the BG leaves zero residue. Shutter blades will let you see any residue. Trichloro whozit was the officially recommended Graflex solvent. If you have any 80 year old neighbors, maybe one still has a bottle of carbon tetrachloride you could mooch. Nothing beats that stuff.

[Daniel Harbin]

Hey fellows.  Back again.  Surprise!Suprise!  Having been soaking in the camp fuel, the shutter is comming to life.  Sure it won't work long.  But I couldn't cock it at all before.  So far all I've done is soak it some 3 days now in a small glass jar, with periodic agitation.
 
Wayne, I feel more confident that someone other than me uses camping fuel and acetone.  I was hesitant about it since I have seen very little reference to it in any of the camera forums I've visited.  Since this is a Seikosha, and not a somewhat familiar Synchro, I'm hesitant to strip down the shutter parts.
 
mike kovacs, brake cleaner I thought about but wanted to see how the camping fuel would work.  If it didn't was planning on proceeding with the other good suggestions- Acetone, dry cleaning fluid, brake cleaner, etc.
By "accelerator" I assume you are talking about a Cyclotron?  Van de Graaff type?
 
Glenn, should have remembered carbon tetrachloride.  Used a lot of that back in school.  You'r right.  It is an outstanding solvent.  Unfortunately it is considered a strong carcinogen.  Most of the people I know who would have used it are no longer around.   If I'm not mistaken, it was used also in dry cleaning fluid before being banned from general use.
 
If the camp fluid works (as it appears to be), I may be back in business sooner than I thought, comparing this to previous attemps without a stripdown.
Daniel

[Glenn Thoreson]

Daniel, cancer isn't the biggest issue with carbon tet. The big issue is it removes all the oxygen from the air, wherever the fumes are. People used to suffocate from using it in small enclosed spaces. Boy, that must be one cruddy shutter to require that much soaking. The camp fuel is actually more like a naptha than gasoline. It should dry with no residue. Hope it works.

[Wayne]

The camp fuel is actually more like a naptha than gasoline.

Yep, my understanding is that Shellite (as favoured by Martolod & m'self) is pretty much the same as lighter fluid, only cheaper - certainly smells and works the same - and that Shellite is also sold as Coleman Camp Fuel.

As well as using it for cleaning camera parts, it fuels my vintage brass Optimus "chuffa" stove when I'm camping...

[Mike Kovacs]

By "accelerator" I assume you are talking about a Cyclotron?  Van de Graaff type?

Cyclotron - I'll have a brand new one all to myself in less than a year.  Made in Sweden too - maybe a Hasselblad?